Singapore police ignorant of the law

From: "truth"
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 13:55:15 GMT
Local: Tues, Jul 7 2009 9:55 pm
Subject: Re: Singapore police ignorant of the law

They have no rights whatsoever to even ask for the names.
In doing so they are either betraying their ignorance and
making fools of themselves or they are acting beyond their
authority and thus bullying Singaporeans. Is this the kind
of impression the SPF wants Singaporeans to have of
them ?
The sooner the SPF wake up from their complacency,
pull up their socks and work as a professional outfit to
unbiasly protect All Singaporeans, the better it is for Singapore
and Singaporeans including policemen.

"Karim" wrote in message
> "truth" wrote in message
> news:ktm4m.2991$
>> Why in the first place did the police wrote to ask for
>> names of speakers when there is no need for a permit ?

> Just for their case something should go wrong

>> Are the police abusing their authority to victimise innocent,
>> freedom loving, just and patriotic Singaporeans ?
>> Or are they not aware of a change in the regulation. How
>> can they do their job when they don't know the law ?

>> "Karim" wrote in message
>> news:h2s5vp$3sp$
>>> It had been exempted from the permit requirement, so what are you
>>> complaining about?

>>> "truth" wrote in message
>>> news:Hoe4m.2894$
>>>> truth comment: this is amazing and is happening a little
>>>> too often. in their over jealous attitude to protect and
>>>> defend the pap leegime, these policeidiots are either
>>>> not aware of or ignoring the rules and regulations.
>>>> a pathetic and dicredited bunch of idiots are in charge
>>>> of singapore's security. singaporeans ought to be
>>>> extremely worried. it will not be long when the terrorists
>>>> strike successfully with these bumbling police fooling
>>>> around with singaporeans rights and freedom.
>>>> Monday, July 06, 2009
>>>> Police retracts licence request after Minister queried
>>>> Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew meeting Penang's Chief Minister Lim Guan
>>>> Eng
>>>> during his recent trip to Malaysia.

>>>> As an opposition activist with the DAP, Lim had been imprisioned for a
>>>> total of 30 months, including 18 months under the ISA during 1987's
>>>> Operation Lalang, Malaysia's equivalent of our Operation Spectrum.

>>>> While Lee was meeting opposition leaders and lawmakers in Malaysia, his
>>>> police force was busy ferreting out information of an indoor forum
>>>> organised to break the silence on Operation Spectrum.

>>>> A week before the public forum, I received an unsolicited email from
>>>> the
>>>> Tanglin Police Division stating that under the Public Entertainment and
>>>> Meetings Act, I am required to furnish them information regarding name
>>>> of
>>>> speakers and format of forum.

>>>> Immediately, I rang up the officer and reminded him that Prime Minister
>>>> Lee Hsien Loong had in 2004 announced to the nation that indoor talks
>>>> would be exempted from permits. Apparently hard of hearing, the officer
>>>> insisted that I furnish him with the information as requested. I then
>>>> assured him that there will be no foreign speakers and that I would
>>>> reply
>>>> him via email.

>>>> I did, but it wasn't directed to him. I emailed Mr K. Shanmugam,
>>>> Minister
>>>> for Law and Second Minister for Home Affairs, and carbon copied it back
>>>> to
>>>> Tanglin Police Station. In the email, I quoted PM Lee's National Day
>>>> rally
>>>> speech in 2004.

>>>> There was no reply for a week.

>>>> On 26th June, two days before the forum, an email from the Public
>>>> Entertainment & Liquor Licensing Unit stated that indoor talks are
>>>> indeed
>>>> exempted from permits.

>>>> That's Singapore police efficiency for you. You go figure.

>>>> And I still don't know on what basis did the police "investigate"
>>>> Bestway
>>>> Properties for hosting the first forum, originally intended on 20th
>>>> June.

>>>> For the record, the three-and-a-half-hour forum at the Quality Hotel,
>>>> attended by about 40 people, concluded without a glitch.

>>>> Here are the emails.

>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>> Email to Martyn See from Tanglin Police Division

>>>> Ops Spectrum forum
>>>> Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:18 AM
>>>> From: "Wee Kay CHIN"
>>>> To:

>>>> Dear Sir,

>>>> I refer to the open forum purported to be held at the Quality Hotel
>>>> Diamond Room, Balestier Road, on Sunday 28 June 2009 from 2pm to
>>>> 5.30pm,
>>>> as
>>>> publicised online at: "".

>>>> 2 Under the Public Entertainments and Meetings Act, Cap 257, any
>>>> lecture, talk, address, debate or discussion held in any place to which
>>>> the
>>>> public or any class of public has access whether gratuitously or
>>>> otherwise
>>>> will require a Public Entertainment (PE) licence, unless otherwise
>>>> exempted. As such, we would appreciate if you can furnish the following
>>>> details in order to help us ascertain the necessary licensing
>>>> requirements:

>>>> i) The synopsis of the discussion;
>>>> ii) Any invited speaker(s) and whether they are locals or foreigners;
>>>> iii) If there are no designated speakers, how will the discussion be
>>>> conducted.

>>>> 3 If you require any clarification, kindly contact me at Tel: 6391
>>> XXXX.

>>>> 4 Thank you.

>>>> Lawrence Chin
>>>> Compliance Management Officer

>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>> Email from Martyn See to Minister

>>>> PEMA permit for indoor forum
>>>> Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:56 PM
>>>> From: "See Tong Ming, Martyn"
>>>> To:
>>>> Cc: sir,

>>>> My name is Martyn See. I am organising an indoor forum entitled
>>>> "Revisiting History : Operation Spectrum - Breaking The Ice After 22
>>>> Years" to be held at the Diamond Room in the Quality Hotel on 28 June
>>>> (Sunday) at 2pm.

>>>> I have just been served an email from Lawrence Chin of the Tanglin
>>>> Police
>>>> Station, who seem to take an active interest in this forthcoming indoor
>>>> talk, publicised in my blog

>>>> Here, I refer to Prime Minister Hsien Loong's National Day Rally speech
>>>> in
>>>> 2004.

>>>> "..for indoor talks, we are going to do away with licensing. Right now,
>>>> if
>>>> you are going outdoors or indoors, if you want to do a talk, you need a
>>>> Public Entertainment licence. Usually, it's approved, it's not a
>>>> problem,
>>>> but once in a while, you are slow or the police have reservations, they
>>>> say, "No", but it's very rare. So now, we've decided we are going to
>>>> exempt indoor talks from licensing requirements unless they touch on
>>>> sensitive issues like race and religion."
>>>> - Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, National Day Rally speech 2004

>>>> I also refer to the Straits Times coverage of your recent speech in
>>>> Parliament.

>>>> "Political space has opened substantially. In 2004, political
>>>> activities
>>>> conducted indoors also became exempt from permits."
>>>> - 2nd Home Affairs Minister K. Shanmugam, quoted by Straits Times, Apr
>>>> 14
>>>> 2009

>>>> My question is patently obvious - does my talk require a licence or
>>>> not?

>>>> I have given my assurances to Mr Chin over the phone that the forum
>>>> will
>>>> not involve any foreign speakers. Your men are most welcome to be to
>>>> present during the proceedings to ensure that.

>>>> I await your response.

>>>> Yours sincerely,
>>>> See Tong Ming, Martyn

>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----

>>>> One week later

>>>> Email from Licensing Division to Martyn See

>>>> Re: Fw: PEMA permit for indoor forum
>>>> Friday, June 26, 2009 9:41 AM
>>>> From: "Wei Chung SIM"
>>>> To:

>>>> Dear Mr See,

>>>> I refer to your email sent to the Minister for Law and Second
>>>> Minister for Home Affairs, Mr K Shanmugam on 18 June 2009.

>>>> 2. Under the Public Entertainment and Meetings (Exemption) Order, any
>>>> indoor talk held in any place to which the public or any class of
>>>> public
>>>> has access, whether gratuitously or otherwise, is exempted from the Act
>>>> if
>>>> the following conditions are complied with:

>>>> (a) the organiser of the indoor public talk is a citizen of Singapore;

>>>> (b) only citizens of Singapore are invited to be lecturers or speakers
>>>> at
>>>> the talk;

>>>> (c) the lecturers or speakers do not deal with any matter -

>>>> (i) which relates, directly or indirectly, to any religious belief or
>>>> to
>>>> religion generally; or

>>>> (ii) which may cause feelings of enmity, hatred, ill-will or hostility
>>>> between different racial or religious groups in Singapore; and

>>>> (d) the lecturers or speakers speak only in any of the 4 official
>>>> languages in Singapore, or any related dialect.

>>>> 3. We note that you had stated in your email and in your
>>>> teleconversation
>>>> with our Officer Lawrence Chin, that there will be no foreigners
>>>> speaking
>>>> at your forum. So long as an indoor talk is conducted in accordance
>>>> with
>>>> all the exemption conditions, the organiser is not required to apply
>>>> for
>>>> a
>>>> Public Entertainment (PE) licence.

>>>> Regards,

>>>> Sim Wei Chung OC Public Entertainment & Liquor Licensing Unit Police
>>>> Licensing Division DID: 655XXXXX FAX: 62261089

>>>> Posted by Martyn See

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